{"id":7321,"date":"2017-03-31T18:56:43","date_gmt":"2017-03-31T18:56:43","guid":{"rendered":"http:\/\/www.denverpost.com?p=2599760&amp;preview_id=2599760"},"modified":"2017-03-31T18:56:43","modified_gmt":"2017-03-31T18:56:43","slug":"exclusive-heres-how-colorado-gov-john-hickenlooper-really-feels-about-marijuana","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/cannitrol.com\/blog\/exclusive-heres-how-colorado-gov-john-hickenlooper-really-feels-about-marijuana\/","title":{"rendered":"Exclusive: Here\u2019s how Colorado Gov. John Hickenlooper really feels about marijuana"},"content":{"rendered":"<div id=\"wp_fb_like_button\" style=\"margin:5px 0 5px 5px;float:right;height:100px;\"><script src=\"http:\/\/connect.facebook.net\/en_US\/all.js#xfbml=1\"><\/script><fb:like href=\"https:\/\/cannitrol.com\/blog\/exclusive-heres-how-colorado-gov-john-hickenlooper-really-feels-about-marijuana\/\" send=\"true\" layout=\"standard\" width=\"450\" show_faces=\"false\" font=\"arial\" action=\"like\" colorscheme=\"light\"><\/fb:like><\/div><div class=\"row\" id=\"sticky-outer\">\n<div class=\"large-11 small-12 columns\">\n<div class=\"entry-meta-date\">Published: Mar 31, 2017, 10:57 am \u2022 Updated: Mar 31, 2017, 12:54 pm<span class=\"single-comments-link\"><a href=\"http:\/\/www.thecannabist.co\/2017\/03\/31\/colorado-governor-john-hickenlooper-marijuana-2017\/76411\/#disqus_thread\" class=\"commentsNameLink\" \/><\/span><\/div>\n<p class=\"byline\">By <span class=\"author\"><a class=\"url fn n\" href=\"http:\/\/www.thecannabist.co\/author\/awallace\/\" rel=\"author\">Alicia Wallace<\/a><\/span><em>, The Cannabist Staff<\/em><\/p>\n<p>In 2012, when Colorado voters wanted their state to legalize weed for adult recreational use, Gov. John Hickenlooper was thrust into an interesting predicament.<\/p>\n<p>The moderate Democrat had <a href=\"http:\/\/www.thecannabist.co\/2013\/12\/31\/colorado-gov-hickenlooper-denver-mayor-hancock-wont-attend-pot-retail-sales\/1639\/\">stood in opposition to Amendment 64<\/a>, a measure he felt would send the wrong message to kids, create public health risks, detract from Colorado\u2019s desirability, and, not to mention, stoke the ire of the feds.<\/p>\n<p>But voters\u2019 will spoke and Hickenlooper became an <a href=\"http:\/\/www.thecannabist.co\/2014\/12\/26\/pot-legalization-colorado-john-hickenlooper\/26085\/\">extremely reluctant figurehead<\/a> and participant in one of the most unique social and political experiments in recent years.<\/p>\n<p>Nearly five years after that historic vote and a little more than three years since the regulated adult-use sales began, that experiment is ongoing and Colorado\u2019s regulations are evolving. And on this front, the broader national landscape is flush with activity: While eight states, including Colorado, <a href=\"http:\/\/www.thecannabist.co\/2016\/10\/14\/legal-marijuana-laws-by-state-map-united-states\/62772\/\">now have recreational marijuana laws<\/a>, the federal government may no longer be a sleeping giant.<\/p>\n<p>The experiment is headed toward a crossroads.<\/p>\n<p>Hickenlooper this week sat down briefly with The Cannabist to address topics such as the looming threat of increased federal enforcement, how Colorado has fared thus far, <a href=\"http:\/\/www.thecannabist.co\/2017\/02\/27\/list-eye-2017-colorado-legislation-marijuana-hemp-bills\/73558\/\">2017 state legislation<\/a> to allow for the <a href=\"http:\/\/www.thecannabist.co\/2017\/02\/27\/list-eye-2017-colorado-legislation-marijuana-hemp-bills\/73558\/#potclubs2\">social use<\/a> and <a href=\"http:\/\/www.thecannabist.co\/2017\/03\/08\/colorado-marijuana-bills-governor-john-hickenlooper-pot-clubs-trump-administration\/75238\/\">home delivery<\/a> of medical marijuana, his views as the parent of a teen and more.<\/p>\n<p><em>(The following has been edited for clarity and length.)<\/em><\/p>\n<p><strong>Q: We\u2019re three years into recreational marijuana sales in the state. How\u2019s it going? What are your biggest concerns and priorities at this time \u2014 both in terms of the regulatory as well as industry development?<\/strong><\/p>\n<p><b>Hickenlooper:<\/b> Always our primary focus has been public safety and to make sure that kids \u2026 we\u2019re not going to see a big spike in teenagers using marijuana. I\u2019d say in most circumstances, from most perspectives, our worst nightmares haven\u2019t materialized.<\/p>\n<p><a href=\"http:\/\/www.thecannabist.co\/2016\/12\/21\/teen-marijuana-use-rates-drop-colorado-2014-2015-federal-survey\/69810\/\">We haven\u2019t seen a spike in teenage use<\/a>. We haven\u2019t seen a <a href=\"http:\/\/www.thecannabist.co\/2017\/01\/31\/colorado-marijuana-data-2017-report-health-effects-trends\/72711\/\">giant increase in people\u2019s consumption of marijuana<\/a>. Seems like the people who were using marijuana before it was legal, still are. Seems like the people who weren\u2019t using marijuana before it was legal, still aren\u2019t.<\/p>\n<p>Obviously now, (the) <a href=\"http:\/\/www.thecannabist.co\/tag\/jeff-sessions\/\">appointment of Attorney General Jeff Sessions<\/a> has added an additional level of complexity; but overall, I\u2019d say that the experiment \u2014 as it continues to move forward \u2014 has gone better certainly than I anticipated and I think certainly better than many people anticipated. Doesn\u2019t mean that we\u2019re completely out of the woods. We don\u2019t have sufficient data to say there aren\u2019t still unintended consequences that we need to address. But it\u2019s certainly not as bad as what most people thought.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Q: You referenced Attorney General Sessions and I know you\u2019re well aware of <a href=\"http:\/\/www.thecannabist.co\/2017\/03\/23\/federal-marijuana-trump-administration-tough-talk-jeff-sessions\/76000\/\">the remarks that both he and White House spokesman Sean Spicer have made<\/a> in regard to potential enforcement as it relates to state-based cannabis programs. What could be the most likely courses of action that the feds may take, and what would your responses be?<\/strong><\/p>\n<p><b>Hickenlooper:<\/b> It\u2019s hard to predict what the action will be. Most of the lawyers I talk to find no legal difference between medical marijuana and recreational marijuana as it relates to federal law. So to crack down on only recreational marijuana and leave medical marijuana untouched, seems unlikely \u2013 if you assume that people are going to approach it the same way.<\/p>\n<p>But by the same token, more than <a href=\"http:\/\/www.thecannabist.co\/2016\/11\/14\/marijuana-legalization-steams-ahead\/67489\/\">60 percent of the population of this country live in a state<\/a> that has either medical or recreational marijuana legal. That\u2019s almost two-thirds of the people of this country living in a state that has some sort of legalized marijuana. To roll that back would be very difficult. And <a href=\"http:\/\/www.thecannabist.co\/2016\/08\/17\/2016-presidential-candidates-platforms-marijuana-policy\/60590\/\">President Trump repeatedly said on the campaign<\/a> that he thought that states were the right place and this was an experiment being done at the state level, and he wasn\u2019t sure the federal government should get in and disrupt something that seemed to be moving forward.<\/p>\n<p>I don\u2019t think there\u2019s much question the old system was a disaster. We sent hundreds of thousands \u2014 millions \u2014 on a nationwide basis, <a href=\"http:\/\/www.thecannabist.co\/2016\/10\/12\/decriminalization-marijuana-arrests-25-seconds-report\/65015\/\">millions of kids to jail for non-violent crimes<\/a>. We inducted them into a high probability of a lifetime of crime, strictly by sending them to prison for something that was a non-violent crime.<\/p>\n<p>This new system, where we may not be completely sure of (whether) we\u2019ve solved all the problems and that we\u2019re going to be successful in this grand experiment, it does offer certain advantages to the status quo of the previous system. <a href=\"http:\/\/www.thecannabist.co\/tag\/colorado-tax-results\">Now we have tax revenues<\/a>.<\/p>\n<p>Some people complain about the black market, \u201cYou\u2019ve got this black market, this large black market. How do you address that?\u201d Well, you know five years ago, it was a huge black market. Everything was black market, right? It was all illegal. Everything was being paid in cash and under the table. At least now we have some tax revenues that we can use to <a href=\"http:\/\/www.thecannabist.co\/2016\/08\/22\/kids-marijuana-use-trusted-adults\/61533\/\">market to teenagers<\/a> and make sure they understand that they could lose permanently a piece of their long-term memory.<\/p>\n<p>Almost every brain doctor I\u2019ve talked to feels there\u2019s a very high probability \u2014 if your <a href=\"http:\/\/www.thecannabist.co\/2017\/02\/27\/teen-marijuana-use-pediatricians\/74416\/\">brain is still rapidly growing during your teenage years<\/a> \u2026 there\u2019s a high probability, it\u2019s more than just risk, <a href=\"http:\/\/www.thecannabist.co\/2017\/01\/12\/marijuana-research-review-10000-studies-analyzed\/71215\/\">you\u2019ll lose a sliver of your long-term memory<\/a> every time you smoke this high-THC marijuana. Most kids don\u2019t realize that. But we now have money <a href=\"http:\/\/www.thecannabist.co\/2015\/08\/20\/colorado-marijuana-teens-whats-next-pot-education-campaign\/39661\/\">we can advertise for that<\/a>. We can provide more money to public safety to <a href=\"http:\/\/www.thecannabist.co\/2017\/03\/13\/colorado-illegal-marijuana-crackdown\/75462\/\">crack down on this gray market<\/a> that turns into a black market. Each year we\u2019re changing the regulatory structure to make it I think a little better.<\/p>\n<figure class=\"figure wp-caption alignleft\"><img loading=\"lazy\" class=\"size-medium wp-image-44113\" src=\"https:\/\/cannitrol.com\/blog\/\/wp-content\/uploads\/2017\/04\/exclusive-heres-how-colorado-gov-john-hickenlooper-really-feels-about-marijuana.jpg\" alt=\"Denver group takes step in getting pot clubs on city ballot\" width=\"500\" height=\"281\" \/><figcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Studio A64 volunteer worker Janine Choung smokes a joint with a customer, left, at the Colorado Springs members-only cannabis social club in August 2014. (Andy Cross, Denver Post file)<\/figcaption><\/figure>\n<p><strong>Q: In terms of those changes, there are a <a href=\"http:\/\/www.thecannabist.co\/2017\/02\/27\/list-eye-2017-colorado-legislation-marijuana-hemp-bills\/73558\/\">couple of bills in this current session<\/a> that you\u2019ve said you\u2019re not a big fan of \u2014 the <a href=\"http:\/\/www.thecannabist.co\/tag\/sb17-192\/\">marijuana delivery bill<\/a> as well as the <a href=\"http:\/\/www.thecannabist.co\/tag\/sb17-184\/\">marijuana clubs bill<\/a>. What are your biggest concerns about those respective pieces of legislation, and what fixes could be made, if any, to earn your signature?<\/strong><\/p>\n<p><b>Hickenlooper:<\/b> The pot clubs, when the public voted on (Amendment 64), it was explicit in that initiative that it would not be for public consumption. So I\u2019m just trying to defend the will of the voters in that.<\/p>\n<p>In terms of delivery, that notion of having a delivery person go around house to house and dropping off potentially significant amounts of marijuana \u2014 any amount of marijuana \u2014 I think we look at that as just a hazard. And if we\u2019re really serious about keeping marijuana out of the hands of teenagers, delivery service offers more opportunity for that marijuana to get into the hands of kids.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Q: And as they stand right now, would you veto them?<\/strong><\/p>\n<p><b>Hickenlooper:<\/b> I haven\u2019t stayed up on the amendments. I know both of those pot bills are getting amended even probably as we speak. I can\u2019t speak to that until I actually see what the bills look like.<\/p>\n<p>I try not to make predictions \u2026 but we\u2019ve spent a lot of time talking with my senior staff about the pot clubs. \u2026 And certainly, as a state, we\u2019ve spent a lot of effort to make sure that people wouldn\u2019t smoke marijuana in public and this notion of pot clubs \u2026 I mean if somebody\u2019s got an edible in their pocket and they\u2019re in a restaurant and they take it out and put it in their mouth, I\u2019m not sure how anyone convicts them of that. I\u2019m not sure what the need for pot clubs is.<\/p>\n<p>I see that most of the pot clubs they\u2019re talking about seem to be, to me, some form of public consumption.<\/p>\n<p>Let\u2019s see what the bills look like \u2026 <a href=\"http:\/\/www.thecannabist.co\/2017\/03\/08\/colorado-marijuana-bills-governor-john-hickenlooper-pot-clubs-trump-administration\/75238\/\">(all that) we\u2019ve said is we have some concerns<\/a>.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Q: Considering your background in the brewpub business \u2014 there have been comparisons made between the cannabis industry and the craft beer industry. Some have equated consumption clubs to taprooms \u2014 as social gathering places.<\/strong><\/p>\n<p><b>Hickenlooper:<\/b> We don\u2019t let anyone smoke a cigarette in a bar anymore either, right? So having smoking, I think, is a bad idea. If people want to go and hang out and watch videos or play table shuffleboard and consume marijuana, right? Ingest it. If that\u2019s how it comes through, I\u2019m not sure what difference that is between people just \u2026 I guess people can say they\u2019re now not doing it illegally. I still would look at that as public consumption. But do I think it really is a terrible factor against the public good?<\/p>\n<p>One big difference between alcohol and marijuana is that if a kid who is 16 gets falling down drunk, the evidence doesn\u2019t seem anywhere near as powerful that there\u2019s going to be long-term consequences to their memory or other mental functions. I\u2019m sure there might be exceptions to that, if people drink so much. But when I\u2019ve talked to the top brain scientists \u2026 they say just getting high once a week with this high-THC marijuana, you don\u2019t have to overdose, you don\u2019t have to go crazy, but just getting high has a very, very high probability of removing a sliver of your long-term memory every time that happens. That\u2019s very different than alcohol. And I think in terms of home delivery, I think that\u2019s a real issue.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Q: You have a teenager yourself. How does that affect your perspective and approach to this issue?<\/strong><\/p>\n<p><b>Hickenlooper:<\/b> I think, like a lot of parents, I have been very clear with my son, \u201cHere\u2019s what I\u2019ve heard, and when your brain\u2019s growing as rapidly as your brain is growing, you would be foolish to take a risk on losing some of your long-term memory.\u201d And at least when he\u2019s talking to me he goes, \u201cDad, do I look stupid? I\u2019m not smoking pot, I never have smoked pot. I\u2019m not gonna smoke pot.\u201d And I talk to his friends as well \u2014 I can be pretty obnoxious about the whole issue. I also tell them not to drink. When you\u2019re that young, it\u2019s just a bad idea to be drinking, doing pot, anything.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Q: <a href=\"http:\/\/www.thecannabist.co\/2017\/03\/01\/colorado-attorney-general-jeff-sessions-cynthia-coffman\/74644\/\">Colorado Attorney General Cynthia Coffman has invited<\/a> Sessions to visit Colorado for a first-hand look at how the system operates here. If that were to happen, what would you say to him? What would you show him?<\/strong><\/p>\n<p><b>Hickenlooper:<\/b> I think I would make the argument to Attorney General Sessions that I\u2019d tell him, I opposed it. I thought this was too risky of an idea. No state wants to be in conflict with federal law, but <a href=\"http:\/\/www.denverpost.com\/2012\/11\/06\/coloradans-say-yes-to-recreational-use-of-marijuana\/\">our state passed this 55-45<\/a>, our state <a href=\"http:\/\/www.thecannabist.co\/2017\/02\/14\/colorado-marijuana-advice-california-governor-john-hickenlooper\/73656\/\">supports it by more than 60-40 now<\/a>. \u2026 I took an oath to uphold the Constitution of Colorado and I have an obligation to do everything I can to try and make this thing work.<\/p>\n<p>And as such, this experiment \u2014 and I really think of it as an experiment \u2014 is going through an evolution that I think is generally positive. The negative factors, we\u2019re seeing less of each year, and I would argue to the attorney general that the country has potential benefit to be able to see this experiment through to a natural conclusion. Let\u2019s go a couple more years and see and get more data and really see, \u201cAre we worse off or better off than we were before?\u201d<\/p>\n<p><strong>Q: Where are you at now, personally?<\/strong><\/p>\n<p><b>Hickenlooper:<\/b> I look at the entire arc of legalizing medical marijuana and recreational marijuana as something that maybe I didn\u2019t think was a good idea, I didn\u2019t think was worth the risk. But again, the people of Colorado have their own opinions about things, and they were pretty emphatic, right? 55-45 is a large margin, that they wanted to try going in a different direction.<\/p>\n<p>And if I could\u2019ve reversed the vote through some magical incantation, back when it first passed, I probably would\u2019ve done it. But now I think we\u2019ve made enough progress that I would want to \u2026 I\u2019d want to go a couple more years and see whether we can make this thing work and have it be, ultimately, a better system. \u2026<\/p>\n<p>I asked an 18-year-old kid one time \u2014 this was two years ago \u2014 whether he thought it was more likely that he or his friends were more likely to get high with marijuana because the adults had legalized it. And he looked at me and kind of laughed and says (paraphrasing): \u201cYou know, none of us were scared of marijuana in the old days. Anyone who wanted to could get access to it. Your real opportunity here is if you tax it properly and get rid of the black market \u2014 and drug dealers don\u2019t care who they sell marijuana to \u2014 and if you make it not worth a drug dealer\u2019s risk to be selling marijuana, because it\u2019s so inexpensive and so available already legally, then you\u2019re going to reduce the number of drug dealers.<\/p>\n<p>\u201cThey\u2019ll still be selling crack and who knows what else \u2014 opioids. But at least they won\u2019t be selling pot and so there will be a lot less drug dealers. And drug dealers don\u2019t care who they sell to. So if you\u2019re trying to keep pot and other narcotics out of the hands of kids, less drug dealers is a good deal, it\u2019s a good thing.\u201d<\/p>\n<p><strong>Q: So are you now in favor?<\/strong><\/p>\n<p><b>Hickenlooper:<\/b> When other governors ask me whether I recommend that they should legalize, I told other governors that I think they should still wait a year or two, maybe three years. Get more data and make sure there aren\u2019t unintended consequences. I don\u2019t think there needs to be any rush towards a sudden nationwide transformation. Let\u2019s make sure we get it right first.<\/p>\n<div class=\"entry-meta-tags\">\n<div class=\"entry-tags\">Topics: <a href=\"http:\/\/www.thecannabist.co\/tag\/amendment-64\/\" rel=\"tag\">amendment 64<\/a>, <a href=\"http:\/\/www.thecannabist.co\/tag\/colorado\/\" rel=\"tag\">Colorado<\/a>, <a href=\"http:\/\/www.thecannabist.co\/tag\/john-hickenlooper\/\" rel=\"tag\">John Hickenlooper<\/a>, <a href=\"http:\/\/www.thecannabist.co\/tag\/legalization-vote\/\" rel=\"tag\">legalization vote<\/a>, <a href=\"http:\/\/www.thecannabist.co\/tag\/pot-clubs\/\" rel=\"tag\">pot clubs<\/a>, <a href=\"http:\/\/www.thecannabist.co\/tag\/private-clubs\/\" rel=\"tag\">private clubs<\/a>, <a href=\"http:\/\/www.thecannabist.co\/tag\/recreational-marijuana\/\" rel=\"tag\">recreational marijuana<\/a>, <a href=\"http:\/\/www.thecannabist.co\/tag\/sb17-184\/\" rel=\"tag\">SB17-184<\/a>, <a href=\"http:\/\/www.thecannabist.co\/tag\/sb17-192\/\" rel=\"tag\">SB17-192<\/a>, <a href=\"http:\/\/www.thecannabist.co\/tag\/social-use\/\" rel=\"tag\">social use<\/a>, <a href=\"http:\/\/www.thecannabist.co\/tag\/states-rights\/\" rel=\"tag\">states rights<\/a><\/div>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"entry-meta-author\">\n<div class=\"authorimage\"><a class=\"url fn n\" href=\"http:\/\/www.thecannabist.co\/author\/awallace\/\" rel=\"author\"><img src=\"https:\/\/cannitrol.com\/blog\/\/wp-content\/uploads\/2017\/04\/exclusive-heres-how-colorado-gov-john-hickenlooper-really-feels-about-marijuana-1.jpg\" class=\"authormug\" \/><\/a><\/div>\n<p class=\"author-desc\">Alicia Wallace joined The Cannabist in July 2016, covering national marijuana policy and business. She contributes to the Denver Post&#8217;s beer industry coverage. In her 13 years as a business news reporter, her coverage has spanned the economy, Sports&#8230;<\/p>\n<\/div><\/div>\n<\/p><\/div>\n<p><!-- .row --> <\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>Colorado Gov. John Hickenlooper to talks about AG Jeff Sessions and fed enforcement, state pot clubs legislation, being the parent of a teen, and more. <\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":1,"featured_media":0,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"open","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":[],"categories":[6857,2097,77,6815,5667,9,5019,441,1,3,61,1736],"tags":[6859,4665,2655,6820,5673,5022,3015],"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/cannitrol.com\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/7321"}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/cannitrol.com\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/cannitrol.com\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/cannitrol.com\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/1"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/cannitrol.com\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=7321"}],"version-history":[{"count":0,"href":"https:\/\/cannitrol.com\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/7321\/revisions"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/cannitrol.com\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=7321"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/cannitrol.com\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=7321"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/cannitrol.com\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=7321"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}